tetonrider
Oct 9, 15 15:29
Post #1 of 39 (19337 views)
We've got a thread that existed pre-(public) release, as well as a new "backlash" thread that seemed to be full of mostly speculation. I decided to start this thread because I realized I am in a somewhat unique position. Namely, I'm an amateur racer who has actually been on the bike for a while (>1,000 miles), and in fact I've raced it for that "magical" 6.5-7h duration alluded to in that other thread.
I figured I could stick to factual information in this post, albeit n=1. On this forum and other social media, I've seen a number of comments that seem to be speculation from people who have never been on the bike (a Cervelo rep, for one) -- and often it is many people repeating speculation that can be traced to the same source.
Others have seen, demo'ed, or owned the bike a short(er) period of time. Those opinions and first-hand experiences are equally valid, but I think we should consider context in any of these discussions.
A bit of background: I'm an amateur racer based in the US. I'm generally a fan of Specialized bikes, but that allegiance has been earned. I have owned and ridden many top-level bikes, including those from Specialized. For me, the Tarmac is a benchmark in terms of handling and performance. Over the years I have found that people may prefer other bikes, but it is very hard/nearly impossible to find something about the Tarmac that is anything other than solid. When I make comparisons, I tend to relate them back to the subjective characteristics of the Tarmac.
Yes, I have personal bias -- we all do. I do not get free product from Specialized.
I have experience with several iterations of the S-Works Roubaix, as well as the S-Works SL2, SL3 and SL4 Tarmac, the (old) Venge, and the ViAS. I have at least 1,000 but in some cases more than 10,000 miles on each of those frames.
The ViAS -- announcement:
When I heard there was a new Venge, I'll admit I was predisposed to like it. I'd had my Venge since 2012 and loved it, but I was ready for something new. For racing, whereas the Tarmac nailed the handling, in back-to-back comparisons, I noticed my Venge had just a bit of understeer to it. It required more input to turn than the Tarmac. This was very subtle, but I'd mainly notice it as I descend a steep mountain pass at speeds in excess of 50mph. I happen to live at the base of an ~5 mile, ~8-10% grade; it's a good testing ground. [I've ridden that Venge with various wheels and the same spec as the Tarmac in making that comparison over a period of years.]
For the same build (same drivetrain, wheels, bar tape, etc), my SW Venge comes in at 170g heavier than my SW Tarmac. As much as I love the Tarmac, I often said that the Venge is the bike -- for racing in the US and general riding -- you'd have to pry from my hands. This is highly subjective, but I'd feel a slight hesitation from the Venge at the slowest speeds, say accelerating from 5 to 7mph on a climb. However, it would have a feeling of coming ALIVE when going from 25 to 30mph. Hard to put into words and maybe just in my head...but many who have been on an aero bike knows this feeling.
I could deal with the bit of understeer. Someone who only knew the Venge might not even notice it.
The ViAS -- it's real:
So, as predisposed to like it as I was, when I saw it I was a bit less than enthused. In fact, I just didn't like the looks at all -- and the proprietary nature foiled my thought to basically minimize costs by swapping all my components from old Venge to new.
That said, the numbers really excited me. I could probably overlook the looks....maybe. :)
I had an opportunity to get one of the first ones that came into the States, and I took it. Like everyone else, I heard some of the rumblings about the brakes and was a bit nervous.
First ride(s):
The ViAS arrived during my race season and while I was in heavy training. It took a while for me to get it going. I'm a pretty savvy mechanic (to give an idea: back in 2012 I built a custom stem for my Shiv TT so that I could (a) run full internal wiring from extension and bull-horn all the way to the derailleurs and (b) run any bar I wanted with a round clamp -- you can find a thread about it somewhere on Slowtwitch). The ViAS is a new beast, and with many proprietary parts even an experienced mechanic needs to go back to basics. It turns out that the order in which you do certain things -- particularly notable during brake setup -- is critical. If you're used to slapping on Shimano brakes, this is something new.
The folks at Specialized were amazing. Upon release there were few parts available, and due to the proprietary nature of bars & stem, you can't just order up new ones. I have an interesting fit (56 frame with a 140/-10 stem, slammed on my Venge & Tarmac). They got me going with a long & low setup.
I got very familiar with the bike during that setup. The initial build took me a while because I was extra careful. I also stripped everything down to check it out and weigh it before building it back up. I was also doing this in my spare time between work/family/training/racing. Getting the bike on the road was shocking...in a good way. My quibbles with the handling of the old Venge were addressed in the ViAS.
For as equivalent a build as you can get (drivetrain + wheels the same on each), my ViAS clocks in at 1.08kg heavier than my Venge. As we all know, parking lot weight is the very first thing we notice when comparing bikes. I said I was weighing everything as I went along -- and the mounting weight did get my attention. You could even say I was predisposed to thinking the bike would have a sluggish feel. On-the-road, however, was a different story. You can easily tell where the frame has been reinforced. When you stand up, the responsiveness is very much like the Tarmac--no hesitation at all. (I'm not saying that there is lost power in any frame at our/amateur power:weight, but some bikes give a sensation of instant response, and the ViAS is one of them.)
Further, as much as I liked the feeling of accelerating to 30 from 25mph on the Venge, the ViAS had that same feeling...even moreso. Aero isn't so easily detected unless one is in a controlled environment or doing careful field testing. I did neither. While I did notice that times on familiar routes, done casually, were faster on the ViAS, I'm also a natural skeptic: new bikes sometimes make you go faster just because they are, well, new.
There is ONE thing that I thought was pretty telling. I mentioned above that I live at the base of a mountain pass. A few weeks after having the ViAS I figured I'd ride up it. It's about 35' / 5.5 miles / 2,500 vertical. I was just cruising up at the end of a longer ride. I ride this pass all the time and have done the descent too many times to count. The descent is too steep for pedaling to make any difference.
Descending on the ViAS:
That brings me to my point: after all those personal descents, and with even using aero wheels (I was on Pacenti training wheels), I still set the Strava KOM on the bike. Yep, just one descent on the ViAS, and I'm just one rider, but it was interesting because to really nail this descent aerodynamics would matter--but the bike's ability to hold a line through the twists and turns would also be key. I cannot separate out how much of the faster speed was due to aerodynamics vs handling (realizing that the ViAS rails corners allowed me to carry more speed into/through/out of turns), but I know the net effect was an improvement in every aspect. The bike definitely inspired confidence in me.
(FWIW, I average 50mph on that 7' descent. Those speeds are pretty revealing -- in my opinion -- of handling nuances. We tend to speak of subtle nuances in dramatic terms, and high speeds magnify the subtleties.)
Braking:
Yeah, braking. My natural skeptic was really concerned about the braking because, well, for all the reasons that we all heard/read about/speculated/repeated. The new brakes are essentially V-brakes, which is a type of brake that has been around forever. My braking reference is Shimano DA calipers, but I tend to use eebrakes (which, I'd say, are about 90% power and modulation of Shimanos at ~1/2 the weight). When set up properly (they do take more input to set up right the first time), I found them to be every bit as powerful as DA brakes. I also found they were quite tunable in terms of modulation and initial lever travel before the pads bite.
It didn't take more than a ride for me to forget any thought of them being insufficient. I've ridden them in the mountains and in the rain -- but now full-on downpours as of yet. Can't see why they would be any worse than any other rim brake, though. I can lock up my wheels with one finger braking.
Switching wheels of various widths *could* be an issue. I haven't had any problems yet, but I've generally run wider wheels (Zipp FCs, Shimano C50s, Pacentis and an AX Lightness rim). It is more work to swap to the pad holder for narrow rims; I haven't had to deal with that yet as all my wheels have been covered by the wider pad holders and a few turns of the spring tension adjuster.
If I were riding ZIpp FCs and was handed a narrow neutral wheel in a race? I'd be hosed...but that really doesn't happen, or hasn't happened yet.
Comfort:
Lots of people make a BIG deal about comfort on aero bikes. For what it's worth, I was SUPER worried about this when I plunked down money for my Venge back in 2012. Maybe I'm less sensitive than others, or maybe people exaggerate, but I found that nay comfort differences can be adjusted by letting a few (1-3) psi out of my tires. I don't say this is the right thing to do, but I mention it to put an order of magnitude on the sensation.
So....in that other backlash thread, there was talk of only ONE race in the US being anything like the DURATION that the professionals ride, and there was speculation about the professionals just not finding the bike comfortable. As it happens, I've done that race (LOTOJA -- http://www.lotojaclassic.com) 6 times now: on the Roubaix SL2, Tarmac SL3, SL4, Venge (twice) and ViAS. The race is just over 200 miles, and I've finished in as few as 8h45m (I didn't win that year but the small pack in our race field set the course record). The lead race group will put a foot down for a nature break (sometimes not even that)....maybe a total of 1 minute or 2 stopped during that time. It's a pretty revealing test of comfort.
You know what? Can't say I've had ANY issues on any of these bikes. Around 150 miles, ANY bike can become a bit uncomfortable -- or rather you simply notice it's been a long day. If I have my fit on any of these bikes I've been just fine. Your mileage may vary.
I wouldn't hesitate to ride the ViAS again for that duration.
A couple weeks ago we had a little, local, underground "Roubaix-style" race over some easy gravel, dirt roads and broken pavement. I threw some C50s (with 25c tubulars, low pressure) and ran the ViAS without hesitation. Others were on CX bikes on these roads. I'd ride the ViAS at Battenkill (I've raced it 3x)...if I race it again.
Conclusion:
Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, but I wanted to write the above to put some first-hand impressions out there from someone who is neither a Specialized employee nor a World Tour rider -- and in particular because I may be the one person that fits that criteria who has ridden/raced the ViAS the most. While I do race and am very "serious" about it (as serious as you can be about amateur sport), I'm really just an average guy and have more in common with the average reader in this forum than differences.
The telling point for me is that since owning the ViAS, whenever I have the chance to reach for a bike for ANY ride, I'm reaching for that one. There is something VERY seductive about the ride quality. I can't put it into better words. I've tended to race the Venge and train on my Tarmac, and while those options are still available to me.....I just find that I don't want to ride either one. I'm in a very fortunate position to have them all available, so I think there is meaning in that.
This has gotten REALLY long, and I've spent time I didn't really have today in writing it. Gotta run. Maybe I'll upload a few photos later. I hope someone finds something useful in all this.
